2:22 a.m. - 2004-08-30
late night conversations in madness or clarity

Libra

You can't expect to get to know new people if you aren't willing to at least lay some of your cards on the table. Be open about your emotions today, and everyone else will follow suit. Feelings transcend every language and cultural barrier known to humankind. It might be necessary to go out of your way in order to bring someone out of their shell, but the results are worth it. Tonight, a confusing event leaves you scratching your head. Once you understand, it will be easier to act.

Transcript of conversation follows:

Dave : hey

John : hello

Dave : what's up?

John : eating...

John : ...i start college tomorrow

Dave : awsome

Dave : what classes?

John : statistics, intro sociology, honors english

Dave : NICE

John : somehow that equals a full semester

Dave : so what have you been up to past couple weeks?

Dave : besides getting ready for college?

John : last weekend i played in friday night's tournament, had reserve drill saturday and sunday; went to all three tournaments this weekend, saw rocky horror picture show last night

Dave : that's such a kickass movie

John : the cast sucked, they ruined most of the a.p. lines

Dave : oh you saw it live?

John : yeah, i don't think i'd say i saw it if i just watched it on tape

Dave : well just wanted to keep you posted and check and see how you've been, getting ready to jump into bed

John : you're already there unless you've rearranged your room

Dave : lol well you know i've got to lay down and stuff lol

John : shrugs

Dave : just wanted to make sure everythings cool between us, past couple weeks have been kind of high and low for me

John : shrugs just take things in stride, don't worry about people's opinions. the only person you have to please in life is yourself

Dave : I just let my emotions run me too much

Dave : have to start trying to get control over them

John : yes and no

John : listen to your instincts but don't let them rule you

Dave : I don't know a whole lot of satanism, but just out of curiousity did you get any kind of vibes or anything off me when you were here?

John : what are you really asking?

Dave : I guess basically if you know anything more about me than I know about me

John : i could make some assumptions

Dave : ok be my guest

John : .oO(thing is, meeting you in person only added to what i could know about you, i really didn't get contradicted between my impression of you online and in person)

Dave : ok

Dave : go on

John : first off, you may be sensitive about it but fixing this one thing may open up a world of opportunities for you

Dave : ok what's that?

John : your teeth man, they were quite a scary sight. you deal with them and you should have a fresh wave of confidence

Dave : ok

John : i'm telling you this because confidence seems to be something that you either lack or just don't have enough of, if just cleaning up you teeth can help give you that, most of your problems or what you currently perceive to be problems should go away

Dave : thanks for being honest with me about htat

Dave : *that

John : well, you asked

Dave : no seriously I do appreciate you being honest about it, your the first person to have said anything to me about it...

Dave : anything else?

John : i think that right there is a major step in fixing anything else...

John : you want someone in your life in a romantic capacity, you're going to want them to want to kiss you.

Dave : cool

Dave : thankyou

John : anything else you'd like to ask?

Dave : there's tons of things I wanna ask just not sure what the right words are

John : i understand. try to form something coherent and i should be able to work with it

Dave : well see the problem is I don't know exactly what satanism entails, if you were wiccan I'd ask if your spirit guides told you anything about me I should know... but I don't know if you even believe in spirit guides or what not

Dave : It's definately a religion I'm gonna have to look into studying

John : the dynamics of satanism can be simplified into one statement: BE YOUR OWN GOD!

Dave : hmmm... interesting enough

Dave : so do you worship satan or...?

Dave : not to stereotype or anything

Dave : just trying to grasp the basic ideals of the religion and practices...etc

John : well, i will stereotype, wicca is TOO politically correct, TOO worried about offending people, TOO worried about being accepted as wicca and not being labeled as "devil worshippers"

John : satanism, the anton lavey version anyway and my adaptation of it, entails not truly caring about offending people. sometimes the "scare factor" is all one needs to accomplish something. "rock is deader than dead, shock, it's all in your head" if people perceive you to be shocking, then you've already set them on the defensive. just be sure to keep up your offensive. in an area you excel, do it with finesse, in an area you are lacking, don't reveal all your cards

Dave : intriguing

Dave : I could never pull it off, but it is

John : you could never realize that no matter how close to someone you may become, you truly only have your self to answer to and your self to please?

Dave : nope

Dave : I'm always trying to make others happy

John : what does it accomplish for you? what gains do you get? and you'd better not answer with karma

Dave : lol just to be me... karma

Dave : lol

Dave : no really I mean I just like seeing other people happy

John : book mark this page www.satansim101.com

Dave : it says the page cannot be displayed

John : it has all of the major stuff you'll find in anton lavey's satanic bible and several other good essays / articles

John : i just went straight to it

John : try just typing it into your browser

Dave : alright I got it bookmarked

Dave : but like I told you I could never pull of being like that

John : the statements, rules of the earth, and sins are the main part of it, most of the other stuff you would find in the satanic bible are akin to parables

John : are you ashamed to be angry?

Dave : sometimes

John : why?

Dave : because anger leads to hate and I don't want anyone to hate me so why should I be allowed to hate?

John : hate and love require the same amount of emotional fuel. i could love a person for some quality and then later grow to hate them for the same quirks and foilbles that attracted me to that person in the first place

John : does the anger come to you naturally?

Dave : yeah

John : then why try to deny / suppress it? do you stop to consider why you are feeling that way? that maybe you should feel that way? if you shouldn't feel that way, why would you be feeling that way?

John : "Self-deceit -- It's in the Nine Satanic Statements but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it's fun, and with awareness. But then, it's not self-deceit! "

Dave : so your saying I should allow myself to be angry?

John : "III Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit! "

John : why shouldn't you be angry?

John : if something angers you, it does. if something makes you happy, it does.

John : how you respond to that feeling is another issue

John : hypothetical situation:

John : (we're clear on this being a hypothetical situation?)

Dave : yes

John : (ok, i will proceed)

John : when i met you, after driving all the way up there, suppose that i had decided that i hated you, what could i have done about that (here are some examples):

John : i could have socked you in the face and left, i could have tried to be nice then when i left slashed your tires or thrown a rock into your windshield, or just bottled it up and a driven home immediately adding you to my ignore list

John : now, each of those actions would have consequences

John : the first two might involve you calling the cops

John : the third one would be less destructive

John : but, all three could have led me to thinking irrationally on the way home, getting myself into a serious accident or other bad situation

Dave : ok

John : but in that hypothetical situation do you see how things could have transpired from not using anger constructively?

Dave : ok now can use a situation where you do use your anger constructively?

John : that's where things get tricky isn't it, why it's so much easier for you to deny your anger in the first place?

Dave : because I dont have to deal with it

John : ok, well, lets look back into the hypothetical situation again

John : (same one)

Dave : ok

John : why would i be angry with you? what would be motivating that anger? (i want to hear your suggestions)

Dave : I don't know

John : well let's go with the stereotypical one then, homophobia, let's suppose that were the case

John : i was told once that homophobes are just closet case queers, and i was also told that homophobia is the fear that you yourself might be gay

John : the song pieces of you kinda describes it better than i can

Dave : hmm never heard it, I'll have to download it

John : by jewel?

Dave : oh yeah ok

John : .oO(thought you told me you'd heard it)

Dave : I have

John : ok

John : well if my anger were motivated by homophobia, there could be a string of other events that would follow up our meeting regardless of which of the three options i chose earlier. but let's suppose i went with # 3 and deleted you from my messenger list

John : there wouldn't be obvious consequences like jail time or anything like that, but more emotional consequences

Dave : ok

John : so at this point i'd still be seething with anger because i didn't vent it on you or your possessions, and somehow i made it home alright

John : i could go buy a hooker or otherwise find a woman to seduce into sex, to "prove" to myself that "i ain't gay" (since that seems to be the response)

Dave : k but how do you use anger in the right way?

John : (still haven't gotten there)

Dave : ok

John : i could go work out, using the anger as fuel. (a good temporary fix but not a solution)

John : or i could use it as a sign that i need to look deeper into myself

John : (which could lead to a productive solution)

Dave : ok so then you find the source of the anger and focus it on itself??

John : yes and no

Dave : I'm trying to understand

John : you use the energy that you could have otherwise just vented like steam and use it to fuel your exploration of yourself, to allow you to grow as a person (damn that sounds campy)

John : Question

John : .oO(or questions rather)

John : for what do YOU use magic for? how do you go about using it, as in, is it more formulaic or reflexive?

Dave : magic is used to focus your energies on a singular outcome of a particular situation/person/or object... using magic sometimes requires chanting, spells, meditation or just an extreme wanting... it depends on when and how it's being used most of the time it's formulaic but sometimes on occassion when you can't control your emotions it can be reflexive

John : that somewhat answers the second question, but what about the first one? what do you, dave, use magic for, what do you try to achieve?

Dave : well if you would've asked me this question 10 yrs ago I would have said to rid myself of the negetivity around me (i.e. people, situations...etc) but now it's just trying to find more of myself and who I'm supposed to be with.

John : in a way it's still the same goal; however, your efforts may be counterproductive

John : and what exactly do you mean by "rid yourself of the negativity around you", how does magic do that for you, dave?

Dave : have you ever been around someone who just makes every day so negative, a simple binding on that person and he/she leaves you alone

John : have you ever tried to not use "magic" in those situations and just ignored them or asked them to leave you alone?

Dave : of course, that's always assumed practice...think of magic not as a necessity but more of a last resort

Dave : you always try to solve your own problems first but when it doesn't work out that you can...

Dave : that's when the spells/rituals/chants...etc come in to practice

John : have you read my die-ary lately? (if not this isn't me telling you to go read it for answers)

Dave : actually no i haven't

John : ok, well before you do, listen to me

John : I've had it brought to my attention lately that i want my life to be like science fiction and i become disappointed when it's not

John : i think that applies to you and your life as well

Dave : yes I have always had recent enlightenments of the same sort...

John : always?

Dave : what do you mean always?

John : you said it

John : did you mean also?

Dave : lol oh yeah

John : ok

John : the advice i was given to go with this observation was that i need to stop comparing my life to science fiction and just live

John : .oO(hmmm, i was given this advice by one of the people who has referred to me as a dreamer)

Dave : I always knew I was a dreamer

John : sighs

John : .oO(i really don't have an identity right now)

Dave : everyone has an identity

John : this is an abbreviated history of me: somewhere along the line i abandoned the christian idea of god for science (around age three or four), sometime after that i learned what the word atheist meant (summer after eight or ninth grade while reading 'the vampire lestat') and finally had a name for what i was, sometime after that i became interested in the occult (early tenth grade i believe) when someone let me borrow a satanic bible and i started using tarot card and playing magic the gathering (not magical per se but it relates nonethelss)

Dave : can i be honest and upfront with you?

John : aren't you always?

Dave : I try to be

Dave : but when you were here, you didn't appear to me as someone without an identity, in fact something in your eyes was attractive to me, not that you aren't attractive yourself but your eyes are beautiful

John : hmmm

John : (back to the history lesson... i need to clear my head )

John : sometime after that i filled the slot in me for "the divine" with nine inch nails music and then my first lover. i don't know how well it relates to men, but do not place women on a pedestal, they'll just fall off of it and into the arms of another

John : next i filled that hole in me with a combination of magic the gathering and roleplaying games...for quite awhile now.

John : i used to just play the games (or so i thought) now it's been shown to me that i define myself by them

John : and that just isn't good

Dave : maybe you just need to be shown another part of yourself

John : such as?

Dave : give me a sec

Dave : well can I ask you something about the night you were up here

John : sure

Dave : the whole night out of all the things we did what did you enjoy the most?

John : the company

Dave : thank

Dave : s

Dave : are you into any kind of art?

Dave : I wanna say drawing?

John : why would you say drawing?

Dave : I'm just asking

John : i cannot draw

Dave : what's ur class schedule like?

Dave : ??

John : i was going to look at it online but i'll have to do it by memory because the site is being updated

John : m: 850 until 940 is my seminar for success class, 10 until 1135 is my statistics class, 1200 till 2ish is my statistics lab, t/th 850 - 940 english, 10 - 1135 intro sociology, w: 850-940 success seminar, 10 - 1135 statistics

John : roughly

Dave : so you have thursday and friday off then right?

John : tuesday and thursday (t/th) are the same classes

Dave : oh ok but you have the afternoon thursday and friday off?

John : yeah...

Dave : how about a proposition then?

John : depends

Dave : on?

John : depends on the what you are suggesting

Dave : well you feel as if you don't have an identity, I feel that there is an identity to you, you enjoyed the company when you came up last time I enjoyed having company... I have tons of different things that you may enjoy doing which would let you find other things besides magic and roleplaying

John : .oO(isn't that what college is for, to find oneself? the military didn't work for me)

Dave : if you don't want to that's fine

John : i can't afford to ($$$)

Dave : ok

Dave : fair enough

John : i had to get a last minute loan for text books that i can't get until tuesday

John : so any homework i get monday i can't touch until tuesday afternoon

Dave : sorry

John : i'm hoping to have someone in my 'peer group' who will do something like loan me their books

Dave : then another proposition perhaps, I should get some money this week oO(Hopefully) and if I do how about I give you like $30/35 for gas money

Dave : or if that's not enough maybe more

John : do you really want me to use you like that?

Dave : your not using me, I'm offering to help

John : seldom do offers come with no strings attached, what's the catch?

Dave : none

Dave : I just have to wait till I get paid

John : you want me to drive up there so that you can pay me for doing so, to spend time with you?

Dave : that's pretty much it, yeah

John : in exchange for what, exactly?

Dave : no exchange necessary

John : and what do you want to do during this time together?

Dave : hangout...

Dave : just like last time

Dave : like I said there are tons to do here we can find something

John : " have tons of different things that you may enjoy doing which would let you find other things besides magic and roleplaying"

John : what tons of things?

Dave : well there's games, movies, drinking, nature, the strip...etc

John : hmmm

Dave : hmm.??

John : okay, let's see...leave school thursday, drive to ashtabula, be back on friday before my magic tournament

Dave : what time is your magic tournament?

John : it usually starts around 7 pm, but i should be there around 5 to make any trades or last minute changes to the deck

Dave : ok well you can leave here around 2 or so and make it back in plenty of time

Dave has signed back in. (8/30/2004 2:14 AM)

John : tonight nick and i came in third and fourth places, since we lost to the guys who split first and second place... if the pairings in the top four had been different we would have won (most likely)

John : that does require that i sleep there though

Dave : like I said we have a spare bedroom

Dave : your more than welcome here

John : i just don't know if i can do it

Dave : do what?? sleep??

John : allow myself to stay there.

Dave : why's that?

Dave : because of me?

John : because you are not someone i have known for a long period of time

John : it's one of those trust issues

Dave : oh ok, well that's understandable then how about this I give you my room, the key to my room so you can lock yourself in here and I'll sleep in the middle bedroom?

Dave : that way you know I won't try to rape you in your sleep or anything like that

John : am i that sexy?

Dave : I think so, yes

Dave : do you not think you are?

John : not lately

Dave : well then perhaps you need to come here, just like I need to work on my teeth to get my self-esteem up perhaps you should be around someone who isn't afraid to tell you how goodlooking you are

John : i think i need company, not flattery

Dave : well you did say you enjoyed the company when you came up the first time

John : doesn't necessarily mean i don't want to do something along the lines of magic the gathering or vampire the masquerade. if i had the vampire requiem and world or darkness books i'd like to play those... i feel as though my imagination is getting no exercise

Dave : well then if your interested thursday evening is when I go play D&D I just started again if you can be here around 3:30/4 we can get to the mall and get your character setup

John : mall?

Dave : yeah we play at the gameshop in the mall

John : odd

Dave : what do you say?

Dave : did you know that there's a vampire the masquarade card game?

John : it used to be called jyhad and then they finally wised up and renamed it vampire the eternal struggle

Dave : If I have some extra money I may purchase a starter

John : white-wolf has made the mistake of using certain words in it's games that can be greatly misconstrued: jyhad, fetish, clan, passion

Dave : lol oh heavens my virgin ears

Dave : lol

John : i don't recommend the card game, i haven't actually played but there are several reasons i don't recommend it, especially for you

Dave : ok what are the reasons for me?

John : for you specifically, you already play yugioh and know how to play magic and probably know how to play pokemon and a few other games... i don't think you need another card hobby.

Dave : lol don't forget .hack, yuyuhakusho, sailor moon...etc etc etc

Dave : lol

John : and if you are just playing an rpg instead of running one, you don't need to purchase anything more than a set of dice (although people go crazy on buying them)

Dave : I have my bag of dice

John : that's my point though, you don't have to waste much cash to play an rpg

Dave : but dude It's getting REALLY late and I have to get up early, will you at least think thursday over

John : let me know later what kinda character i'd need and then i should be able to save some time by making it in advance

Dave : well I have my character already made if it helps you figure out what set he's playing

John : we'll talk about it later then

John : as for now, i'm going to add a dieary entry, brush my teeth, and head to bed

Dave : alright sounds good

Dave : so is thursday a go then?

Dave : or are you going to think about it?

John : .oO(this conversation is going into my dieary verbatim, typos and all)

Dave : lol

John : yes i'll think about it

Dave : groovy

Dave : laters

John : later

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